• Re: race

    From Jcurtis@VERT to NIGHTFOX on Sat May 31 13:33:54 2025
    I feel like there's still a perhaps unconscious desire people
    have to stay around people of their own skin color.

    Like an atheist in church, not many want to be a minority of one.

    Luther King Jr.'s message, that skin color shouldn't matter, and I think everyone should be able to live together and mix.

    In public, yes. For breeding and other social purposes, everyone has a
    right to personal preference. Whatever that may be.

    Genetic diversity originated from the DNA of a single human pair. With
    the unproven and unprovable theory of evolution, the Devil has atheists
    right where he wants them. Beguiled and ignorant.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Jcurtis on Sun Jun 1 13:35:23 2025
    Re: Re: race
    By: Jcurtis to NIGHTFOX on Sat May 31 2025 01:33 pm

    Genetic diversity originated from the DNA of a single human pair. With the unproven and unprovable theory of evolution, the Devil has atheists right where he wants them. Beguiled and ignorant.

    I'm not an expert, but I don't know how one comes to the conclusion that evolution is unprovable..? And how do we know God himself didn't set evolution in motion? Also, the idea that we all descended just from Adam & Eve suggests that there must have been a lot of inbreeding at first, which we all know is problematic. We have a lot of genetic diversity in the world today - How does that come about if we all came from only 2 people? I've seen people debate this online, and I've seen some say the story of Adam & Eve is a parable, not a literal record of historical events.

    Nightfox

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  • From Jcurtis@VERT to NIGHTFOX on Sun Jun 1 14:36:09 2025
    I'm not an expert, but I don't know how one comes to the conclusion that evolution is unprovable..? And how do we know God himself didn't set evoluti in motion? Also, the idea that we all descended just from Adam & Eve suggest that there must have been a lot of inbreeding at first, which we all know is problematic. We have a lot of genetic diversity in the world today - How doe that come about if we all came from only 2 people? I've seen people debate this online, and I've seen some say the story of Adam & Eve is a parable, not literal record of historical events.

    If you believe Moses, it's literal. As Jesus said, if they don't believe
    Moses, they won't believe miracles either.

    God knows genetics better than we do. He made man flawless. Adam could
    have lived forever, but Adam broke the law, and God revoked his genetic
    license to everlasting life, starting a gradual genetic decline. But it
    took generations before inbreeding became a health issue. Not a problem
    in the early years.

    If God started evolution the Bible would say. Evolution is the Devil's
    great hoax. It doesn't pass the scientific method test.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Nightfox on Tue Jun 3 12:37:17 2025
    Re: Re: race
    By: Nightfox to Jcurtis on Sun Jun 01 2025 01:35 pm

    I'm not an expert, but I don't know how one comes to the conclusion that evolution is unprovable..?

    I think the idea is that it is not directly observable. This is, that you won't see a Merychippus give birth to a Pliohippus, and therefore establishing an evolutive relationship between them is a hypothesis at best.

    If you get really anal about it, you cannot prove gravity either.

    I dislike the implication that the theory of evolition is rubbish because it is non-falsable... it is a bit hypocritical because the "theory" of the Abrahamic god is also non-falsable.



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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Jcurtis on Tue Jun 3 12:41:14 2025
    Re: Re: race
    By: Jcurtis to NIGHTFOX on Sun Jun 01 2025 02:36 pm

    God knows genetics better than we do. He made man flawless. Adam could
    have lived forever, but Adam broke the law, and God revoked his genetic

    If man was flawless, and Adam was a man, Adam was flawles.

    The law of God is flawless.

    Things that offend the law of God are not flawless.

    Adam (flawless) broke the law of god (flawless), but this is an impossibility because that would make Adam flawed. This is a contradiction.


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  • From Jcurtis@VERT to ARELOR on Tue Jun 3 16:27:41 2025
    If man was flawless, and Adam was a man, Adam was flawles.
    The law of God is flawless.
    Things that offend the law of God are not flawless.
    Adam (flawless) broke the law of god (flawless), but this is an
    impossibility because that would make Adam flawed. This is a
    contradiction.

    Flawless genetics and free will are not the same thing. Easy to
    understand. Should not be hard.


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  • From jimmylogan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Wed Jun 4 21:23:38 2025
    Nightfox wrote to Jcurtis <=-

    Re: Re: race
    By: Jcurtis to NIGHTFOX on Sat May 31 2025 01:33 pm

    Genetic diversity originated from the DNA of a single human pair. With the unproven and unprovable theory of evolution, the Devil has atheists right where he wants them. Beguiled and ignorant.

    I'm not an expert, but I don't know how one comes to the conclusion
    that evolution is unprovable..?

    Because it's a theory, and can't be reproduced in a lab or other
    controlled setting. There is absolutely no evidence of one
    species (or kind) changing from one to another.

    Birds are birds; dogs are dogs; cats are cats. There are many
    different cat TYPES or breeds, but they are all cats or felines.
    We have never observed a cat turning into a dog - or any kind
    changing into another entirely.

    And how do we know God himself didn't
    set evolution in motion?

    Because He tells us, through the writing of Moses, that "in the beginning
    He created male and female" and these human beings were made AFTER the
    ocean animals, land animals, plants, etc.

    Jesus confirms this and says the Old Testament is fact. He said He
    was God, that He would be killed and rise again - and then He did
    exactly that, proving He was who/what He said He was.

    So, in a way, we can look BACK at the OT with the support of the
    only One that laid down His own life and then picked it back up
    again.

    Also, the idea that we all descended just
    from Adam & Eve suggests that there must have been a lot of inbreeding
    at first, which we all know is problematic.

    Not at first it's not. It's problematic TODAY because of all the problems
    that we have in our genome. When things were new and 'God called it good,' their genetic material hadn't yet accumulated the damage and mutations
    we see today due to sin and time.

    Adam and Eve had many, many sons and daughters. To our modern ears, this
    sounds gross that they interbred, but to them? No problem at all!

    We have a lot of genetic
    diversity in the world today - How does that come about if we all came from only 2 people?

    The same way it happens with dogs... It only takes a few generations for
    an impressive amount of genetic variety to show up.

    I've seen people debate this online, and I've seen
    some say the story of Adam & Eve is a parable, not a literal record of historical events.

    I recommend Answers in Genesis - https://answersingenesis.org They
    have scientists on staff that have studied this very thing, and they
    have a Biblical Creationist worldview.

    And I've heard that theory that it's a 'story' - a way to describe
    to people living at the time of Moses the fact that we all come
    from God. The problem with this is you lose Genesis 3:15 and the
    seed war. You lose the curse of sin. You lose 'the first Adam' and
    thus lose Jesus being 'the second Adam.'

    Without a literal Adam and Eve, you don't just lose the Genesis
    account. You undercut the very foundation for the gospel itself.





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  • From jimmylogan@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Wed Jun 4 21:23:38 2025
    Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

    I'm not an expert, but I don't know how one comes to the conclusion that evolution is unprovable..?

    I think the idea is that it is not directly observable. This is, that
    you won't see a Merychippus give birth to a Pliohippus, and therefore establishing an evolutive relationship between them is a hypothesis at best.

    Historical science vs observable science.

    I dislike the implication that the theory of evolition is rubbish
    because it is non-falsable... it is a bit hypocritical because the "theory" of the Abrahamic god is also non-falsable.

    Except we have an eyewitness account and someone who says that it is
    true and then proceeded to be who and what He said He was. :-)



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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to jimmylogan on Thu Jun 5 10:21:10 2025
    Re: Re: race
    By: jimmylogan to Nightfox on Wed Jun 04 2025 09:23 pm

    I'm not an expert, but I don't know how one comes to the conclusion that
    evolution is unprovable..?

    Because it's a theory, and can't be reproduced in a lab or other controlled setting. There is absolutely no evidence of one species (or kind) changing from one to another.

    Well there would have to be some evidence, or else nobody would have come up with the theory of evolution. But I'm not an expert.. It seems to me, though, that it's natural for things to change, and we have seen gene mutations, so there's that..

    And how do we know God himself didn't set evolution in motion?

    Because He tells us, through the writing of Moses, that "in the beginning He created male and female" and these human beings were made AFTER the ocean animals, land animals, plants, etc.

    I don't think that suggests that God didn't set evolution in motion.. It only says God created male and female/Adam and Eve. And where does the bible say that happened after creating ocean/land animals etc.? That would also account for the dinosaurs being around before humans (which we have plenty of fossil evidence for), but I've heard some people say the Genesis story seems to conflict with the idea of there being dinosaurs on Earth long before humans.

    Jesus confirms this and says the Old Testament is fact. He said He was God, that He would be killed and rise again - and then He did exactly that, proving He was who/what He said He was.

    I know there are accounts of people saying his tomb was guarded, but still his body was no longer there. Are those accounts reputable though? As far as I know, there has never been another account of anyone else doing that, so we know it's not a thing that typically happens.

    We have a lot of genetic
    diversity in the world today - How does that come about if we all came
    from only 2 people?

    The same way it happens with dogs... It only takes a few generations for an impressive amount of genetic variety to show up.

    So, a species can evolve to develop other traits?

    Without a literal Adam and Eve, you don't just lose the Genesis account. You undercut the very foundation for the gospel itself.

    I thought the foundation of the gospel was that through belief in God and Jesus, we are forgiven for our sins. Or is that more of a New Testament thing?

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to jimmylogan on Thu Jun 5 10:27:54 2025
    Re: Re: race
    By: jimmylogan to Arelor on Wed Jun 04 2025 09:23 pm

    I dislike the implication that the theory of evolition is rubbish because
    it is non-falsable... it is a bit hypocritical because the "theory" of
    the Abrahamic god is also non-falsable.

    Except we have an eyewitness account and someone who says that it is true and then proceeded to be who and what He said He was. :-)

    Yes, if we are to believe and trust them, and the accounts of the people who say they saw Jesus' body missing from the tomb and seeing Jesus after his death. How do we know they weren't hallucinating, for instance?

    Nightfox

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  • From Jcurtis@VERT to Nightfox on Thu Jun 5 12:48:27 2025
    Re: Re: race
    By: Nightfox to jimmylogan on Thu Jun 05 2025 10:21 am

    I thought the foundation of the gospel was that through belief in God and Jesus, we are forgiven for our sins.

    Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

    Matthew 12:32 NKJV

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  • From Cougar428@VERT/CJSPLACE to JCURTIS on Fri Jun 6 08:10:26 2025
    Quoting Jcurtis to Nightfox <=-

    Re: Re: race
    By: Nightfox to jimmylogan on Thu Jun 05 2025 10:21 am

    I thought the foundation of the gospel was that through belief in God and Jesus, we are forgiven for our sins.

    Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven
    him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be
    forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
    Matthew 12:32 NKJV

    For someone who doesn't believe, you certainly do seem to read quite a
    bit of the bible.

    Think for a minute. How do you treat others? Do you actually treat them
    in the same way you would like to be treated? It's like Rodney King
    stated - 'Can't we all just get along?'

    Have a great day!

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  • From Jcurtis@VERT to COUGAR428 on Fri Jun 6 07:27:12 2025
    For someone who doesn't believe

    I don't believe in atheism.


    you certainly do seem to read quite a bit of the bible.

    Everyone should. It cures ignorance.


    Think for a minute. How do you treat others? Do you actually treat them
    in the same way you would like to be treated? It's like Rodney King
    stated - 'Can't we all just get along?'

    Not in a battle of truth vs. lies. Why participate if that bothers you.

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  • From Cougar428@VERT/CJSPLACE to JCURTIS on Sat Jun 7 18:20:11 2025
    Quoting Jcurtis to Cougar428 <=-

    For someone who doesn't believe

    I don't believe in atheism.


    you certainly do seem to read quite a bit of the bible.

    Everyone should. It cures ignorance.


    Think for a minute. How do you treat others? Do you actually treat them
    in the same way you would like to be treated? It's like Rodney King
    stated - 'Can't we all just get along?'

    Not in a battle of truth vs. lies. Why participate if that bothers
    you.

    Again, thanks! You really must be a swell person. Very helpful!

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  • From jimmylogan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Tue Aug 5 16:32:40 2025
    Nightfox wrote to jimmylogan <=-

    Hey! Been absent from the BBS during the summer break from
    school/work. :-) Had our grandson from out of town with
    us ALL summer - it was great!!! :-)

    Re: Re: race
    By: jimmylogan to Nightfox on Wed Jun 04 2025 09:23 pm

    I'm not an expert, but I don't know how one comes to the conclusion that
    evolution is unprovable..?

    Because it's a theory, and can't be reproduced in a lab or other controlled setting. There is absolutely no evidence of one species (or kind) changing from one to another.

    Well there would have to be some evidence, or else nobody would have
    come up with the theory of evolution.

    I'm not an expert either, but I've looked into it. Have you heard
    of the 'misssing link' that links modern humans with lower animals?
    Well it's not the only 'missing link' there is - there are NO links
    at all from one 'kind' to another.

    Experts will tell you that it takes time - billions of years - for
    the changes to happen. That's their explanation - given enough time,
    anything can change to something else. So there is no evidence at
    all.

    There IS evidence of animals adapting to their environment, but
    this is NOT the evolution theory that is taught.

    But I'm not an expert.. It
    seems to me, though, that it's natural for things to change, and we
    have seen gene mutations, so there's that..

    Yes, and feel free to give me an example! There are a myriad of them,
    but in NONE of those cases did a dog become a cat, or a giraffe
    become a horse. Adaptation or mutation WITHIN a species? Absolutely!
    But from one to another? Not there...

    And how do we know God himself didn't set evolution in motion?

    Because He tells us, through the writing of Moses, that "in the beginning He created male and female" and these human beings were made AFTER the ocean animals, land animals, plants, etc.

    I don't think that suggests that God didn't set evolution in motion..
    It only says God created male and female/Adam and Eve.

    If He had set evolution in motion, I think we would have been told.
    Instead, we are told that He created. And we are told in what order.

    And where does
    the bible say that happened after creating ocean/land animals etc.?

    In Genesis, we are told that God created 'night and day' on Day One.

    On Day Two, He created the atmosphere.

    On Day Three, He created 'dry ground,' and then created the plant life.

    Day Four sees the rest of the universe being created - the stars, sun
    & moon for seasons - to mark time.

    Day Five is when ocean/sea life is created and birds are created.

    Day Six sees all the land animals created, and then man is created.

    That would also account for the dinosaurs being around before humans (which we have plenty of fossil evidence for),

    I submit that the scienctists that report this 'fossil evidence' have
    a worldview that influences it. Fossils are created when things are
    buried rapidly, not over a long period. Have a wild animal die in
    your back yard and it will be gone in no time at all, becasue it
    is not protected from the other animals or the elements. There's
    no way it will become fossilized.

    But bury a huge number of creatures over a matter of minutes, hours,
    days - whatever - and you WILL find almost more fossils than you
    can count! I believe that's what happened in the Flood of Genesis
    Six.

    Scientists BELIEVE that it took a long time to create the fossils
    because they do NOT believe in a global flood, or the Biblical
    account. They can NOT recreate in a lab fossilization that takes
    a long, long time, but they CAN recreate fossils in a SHORT
    period of time.

    but I've heard some
    people say the Genesis story seems to conflict with the idea of there being dinosaurs on Earth long before humans.

    Dinosaurs were around - the bones prove it. But why 'long before
    humans?' Where is the proof in that? Carbon dating? Take a look
    at the 'ancient' trees that were carbon dated after Mount Saint
    Helens. What about the soft tissue that has been found in dinosaur
    bones? Soft tissue that the scientists say can't be more than
    10,000 or so years old, but is in a bone that they insist is
    MILLIONS of years old.

    Jesus confirms this and says the Old Testament is fact. He said He was God, that He would be killed and rise again - and then He did exactly that, proving He was who/what He said He was.

    I know there are accounts of people saying his tomb was guarded, but
    still his body was no longer there. Are those accounts reputable
    though? As far as I know, there has never been another account of
    anyone else doing that, so we know it's not a thing that typically happens.

    Exactly! No one else has done it of their own accord! But how can
    we take the word of these people? The people that DIED because they
    believed it? People will die for something they believe, but they
    won't normally die for something they KNOW is a lie...

    The way I like to say it is, have you ever met "insert historical
    figure here?" Someone from over 100 years ago. How do you know
    they even lived? Because someone wrote it down as an eyewitness.
    People have no problem believing the eyewitness of those that
    fought at Gettysburg, or rode on the ships that Columbus was
    in charge of...

    We have a lot of genetic
    diversity in the world today - How does that come about if we all came
    from only 2 people?

    The same way it happens with dogs... It only takes a few generations for an impressive amount of genetic variety to show up.

    So, a species can evolve to develop other traits?

    If they are hard coded into the DNA, sure! But a dog won't develop wings.
    A bird might evolve into a longer or shorter beak, and a bird might
    evolve into a bird that doesn't fly anymore, but a dog will never
    become a bird.

    Without a literal Adam and Eve, you don't just lose the Genesis account. You undercut the very foundation for the gospel itself.

    I thought the foundation of the gospel was that through belief in God
    and Jesus, we are forgiven for our sins. Or is that more of a New Testament thing?

    It all points to Jesus. Genesis 3:15 is what I and others consider the
    first prophecy in the Bible. It foretells of One to come against the
    enemy. If Genesis is not literal, then do we need Jesus to come
    and take the punishment for our sin? Our sin that is passed down
    from Adam?

    Gen 3:15 I will put hatred between you and the woman. Your
    children and her children will be enemies. Her son will crush
    your head. And you will crush his heel."



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  • From jimmylogan@VERT/DIGDIST to Nightfox on Tue Aug 5 16:32:40 2025
    Nightfox wrote to jimmylogan <=-

    Re: Re: race
    By: jimmylogan to Arelor on Wed Jun 04 2025 09:23 pm

    I dislike the implication that the theory of evolition is rubbish because
    it is non-falsable... it is a bit hypocritical because the "theory" of
    the Abrahamic god is also non-falsable.

    Except we have an eyewitness account and someone who says that it is true and then proceeded to be who and what He said He was. :-)

    Yes, if we are to believe and trust them, and the accounts of the
    people who say they saw Jesus' body missing from the tomb and seeing
    Jesus after his death. How do we know they weren't hallucinating, for instance?

    Over 500 people at one time were hallucinating? What about the people
    that saw others that were healed of blindness, deafness - healing the
    lame where they could walk again - walking on water - raising Lazarus
    from the dead?

    But my reply about the eyewitness account was of creation from the
    Creator, who inspired Moses to write the account in a scroll that
    we now call Genesis.



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